tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1270723657817172117.post6847165936445339430..comments2023-12-18T02:21:25.723-08:00Comments on cracking the enigma: Autism, temporal binding... and chiropracticdrbrocktagonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15225859145004971487noreply@blogger.comBlogger47125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1270723657817172117.post-29446107887478773262013-04-27T03:02:51.869-07:002013-04-27T03:02:51.869-07:00Absolutely indited written content, Really enjoyed...Absolutely indited written content, Really enjoyed reading through.optimal chiropractichttp://www.optimalchiro.ie/homenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1270723657817172117.post-27669021148746075322013-03-06T08:58:58.973-08:002013-03-06T08:58:58.973-08:00In my experience, many practitioners who make thes...In my experience, many practitioners who make these global claims of curing a variety of things and use hand-wavy neuroscience are sincere, and are constantly fine-tuning their procedure with patients. However, they don't understand science and they're assuming their audience doesn't, either, and will be so impressed by phrases like "rewiring the brain" that they don't ask "in what way?" (And don't even get me started on the frustrations of asking "In what way?" and getting a response that's clearly intended to answer the question, but which really doesn't). In short, it's great to point out all the holes and lack of support, but I'm not sure it's right to suggest all these practitioners are profiteers. <br /><br />The problem many parents face, as an earlier commenter pointed out, is that even the "best-supported" interventions don't have a lot of high quality studies supporting them, and many promising ones haven't yet been investigated at all. In the absence of studies it's hard to tell apart pseudoscience from "proto-science"--something that will eventually be borne out, but hasn't been tested yet. It seems to me all you can really do once you've ruled out the obvious doozies is to try something that seems targeted to a skill you'd like your child to learn and watch like a hawk to see if there's any concrete, specific, large improvement--even knowing you can't be certain how much is the intervention and how much is just the person growing and learning, you can at least rule out what *isn't* helping.<br /><br />Personally, I'd love to see some of the sensory treatments one of the chiropractors alluded to properly tested. I'd particularly like to see developmental optometrists' tinted lenses and certain listening programs tested to see whether they can help kids with SPD (autistic, ADHD, or otherwise). We desperately need more interventions targeted at sensory and motor problems. It frustrates me that qualified scientists are focusing mostly on social and language-based interventions and are leaving sensory and motor to the chiropractors, developmental optometrists, OTs, and so on, when we know so much about how the various sensory systems work and integrate information already. <br /><br />I actually really like Positive About Autism's idea about deep pressure. If anyone ever does a proper double-blind study with a control group, maybe a comparison treatment could be regular deep-pressure massage. Sorry about the novel!E.M.https://www.blogger.com/profile/07258276540400935661noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1270723657817172117.post-28321251269942754132013-01-03T18:14:51.419-08:002013-01-03T18:14:51.419-08:00Small minds with misinformed opinions make me sad....Small minds with misinformed opinions make me sad...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1270723657817172117.post-59480959803390186632012-11-30T13:22:56.655-08:002012-11-30T13:22:56.655-08:00You made some decent points there. I looked on the...You made some decent points there. I looked on the net for your problem and located most people goes together with along with your internet site.chiropractic officehttp://totalbodynj.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1270723657817172117.post-32335802129299591302012-11-13T02:15:10.232-08:002012-11-13T02:15:10.232-08:00So, in short, when kids improve it's down to y...So, in short, when kids improve it's down to your miracle treatment. But when they don't, it's because their parents aren't super enough.drbrocktagonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15225859145004971487noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1270723657817172117.post-75890441760904162452012-11-13T01:09:24.747-08:002012-11-13T01:09:24.747-08:00I am an ESL chiropractor trained in functional neu...I am an ESL chiropractor trained in functional neurology from Carrick Institute. I don't crack back but I do manipulate joints in hands and feet. I only work with autistic children in my practice. Typically I only see them for 3 months. There were only a couple cases from well over 100 kids that I could not help because the kids were so big, heavily medicated, and overweight. Typically I only can help autistic kids when they are physically small and lean. The younger the better. From my experience, I say kids between 2 & 3 year old will start to talk within 3 months of my treatment, kids between 3 & 4 year old will take 6 to 12 motnhs to start to talk (I mean real talk, not talk like perrot). For example, there was an 8-yo kid that could not hear or talk and doctors decided to perform ear surgery on him. Within 6 months of my treatment, the boy could talk and hear. The surgery was canceled. He later was transferred from special school to regular school. For successful cases, the credits belong to superparents. Only superparents can take instructions from functional neurologists to help their kid become normal. It is my opinion that no treatment will work when parents do nothing. There are many factors that interfere the outcomes when trying to help autistic kids to become normal. I don't think we can study about the effectiveness of autistic treatment because there are so many variables. Autistic kids with different muscle tones, food allergies, family backgrounds, environmental triggers, etc. will respond differently to functional neurology or any other type of treatments. Beside neurological deficits, autistic kids have a lot of metabolic deficiencies. We cannnot help them if we allow their blood sugar fluctuate all day long.. this is happening with ABA's food rewarding system. I am not here to judge anyone or system. These kids only have a few early years of their life to get the most benefits from treatment. I do trade my energy and sweats to achieve good results. I don't think good treatment results will come when doctors and/or parents are not sweating. Expect a lot of physical and mental work if you want to help these kids... There is no easy way around in my opinion. Peace!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1270723657817172117.post-4411940726106179212012-04-27T00:44:02.169-07:002012-04-27T00:44:02.169-07:00Full body rehabilitation of the kinetic chain must...Full body rehabilitation of the kinetic chain must be evaluated to find imbalances, which must be corrected through specific Chiropractic Adjustments. Nerves travel through both muscles and jointswaukesha wi chiropractorshttp://www.riverlakespainandwellness.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1270723657817172117.post-8299547355928601582012-02-09T13:58:09.241-08:002012-02-09T13:58:09.241-08:00Where do you go if you have autism AND a bad back?...Where do you go if you have autism AND a bad back? Last time I checked people with autism CAN get back pain - just like mine! (sat propped up with 6 pillows and still not comfortable - arrrgh!). It's possible that being freed from back pain (and some ordinary folk say that Chiro can achieve this) might just make a persons autism less significant and troublesome. It also occurred to me that deep pressure seems to work for some people with ASC, Temple Grandin etc and perhaps Chiro might borrow from some of this effect. Who knows. Arrrgh, my backs gone again.<br />ChrisAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1270723657817172117.post-29093668505387934752012-02-08T16:25:55.570-08:002012-02-08T16:25:55.570-08:00Why was this comment removed by administrator?Why was this comment removed by administrator?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1270723657817172117.post-36079197828550402772012-02-08T14:53:03.628-08:002012-02-08T14:53:03.628-08:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1270723657817172117.post-20193340089403860252012-01-10T19:58:45.370-08:002012-01-10T19:58:45.370-08:00Dr.Rachel.
Thanks for the comment. While I agree ...Dr.Rachel.<br /><br />Thanks for the comment. While I agree that there is a need for more research into conventional interventions, you haven't actually provided anything resembling a coherent argument, or addressing the pertinent question of what it is that chiropractic practitioners are doing to/with autistic kids if they're not practicing chiropractic on them. <br /><br />Your claim is that chiropractic is beneficial for autism because nerves control bodily function. It sounds convincing in a kind of hand-wavy kind of way (like so many wacky and often dangerous autism treatments). But in truth it's no more valid than claiming that leeches will cure autism because all bodily functions require blood.drbrocktagonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15225859145004971487noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1270723657817172117.post-66660133011716847412012-01-10T19:18:02.033-08:002012-01-10T19:18:02.033-08:00Fascinating posts - most of which got my blood boi...Fascinating posts - most of which got my blood boiling. While research is of incredible importance, how many long-term studies do we have on any other ASD therapy? Not many studies show long-term efficacy in the traditional treatments. Why would people spend their well-earned money on the pharmaceutical companies? People have been spending billions on medical treatments for their children and are finding that there is no real improvement in symptoms, or, worse, that new symptoms arise. It's the proverbial "dog chasing his tail" and people are tired of the circles and side-effects. Chiropractic is an incredibly beneficial tool that many, many people find not only relief from but also improvement in overall health. While the majority of chiropractors "crack backs" (which is an incredibly ignorant description), many also utilize well-studied practices, as well. Chiropractic has a much more grass-roots approach to health and as a consumer, I very much appreciate that aspect - I trust word-of-mouth at this point far more than I trust the medical community in bed with the pharmaceutical companies. Anyone with a general knowledge of anatomy and physiology understands that nerves, which control EVERY bodily function, run up and down and through the spine. Ignoring the spine in terms of any sort of neurological dysfunction is like ignoring a car accident that has knocked out the power in a city - you would never just continue trying to flip the switch, would you? What are you so afraid of? Do your homework - you of all people, being a researcher, must know how to do proper digging. Find a reputable, respected chiropractor in your area and ask a million questions. I bet you'd be very surprised at what you uncover.Dr.Rachelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1270723657817172117.post-1020921631380926892011-07-20T06:57:17.283-07:002011-07-20T06:57:17.283-07:00Hi Anonymous.
Thanks for commenting. The problem ...Hi Anonymous.<br /><br />Thanks for commenting. The problem is that subjective impressions are extremely unreliable, particularly if they come from people with an investment in the treatment, be they parents or practitioners. That's why proper research is needed. <br /><br />I've found no evidence of proper research being carried out and, as you admit, there is certainly none published. And yet chiropractors / functional "neurologists" are claiming that their approach is evidence based. There are many words for this behaviour but chiropractors have a habit of suing if you use them.drbrocktagonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15225859145004971487noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1270723657817172117.post-73687265651394288532011-07-20T06:33:22.079-07:002011-07-20T06:33:22.079-07:00I'm not suggesting that traditional chiropract...I'm not suggesting that traditional chiropractic is delivered reproducible results or brings a clear benefit, conversly I've seen the work of functional neurologists first hand with multiple cases. Let's presume for a moment that functional neurologists (chiro background or otherwise) have an answer for 70% of ASD. But due to the cost and lack of funding you don't have research to "prove" it yet. Imagine being a clinician and seeing the changes you are able to influence in these kids, would you stop everything for months (maybe years) until it is proven in the literature or would you continue to serve those in need while research is in the works.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1270723657817172117.post-87892626697076980442011-07-19T20:47:26.769-07:002011-07-19T20:47:26.769-07:00G Wilson it may be drug free, but it is not cost f...G Wilson it may be drug free, but it is not cost free. Parents and their ASD children, would be better off spending hard earned money on evidence based treatments. Chiro is not one of those. Personally it looks to me like Chiropractors are just one more profession profiteering off Autism, while offering no clear benefit.sharon Morrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15492764403059640967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1270723657817172117.post-12548388489441217082011-07-19T02:00:18.661-07:002011-07-19T02:00:18.661-07:00Traditionally, autistic patients relied solely on ...Traditionally, autistic patients relied solely on medication to relieve symptoms, such as aggression, in an attempt to cope with the disease. Chiropractic care, on the other hand, is a drug-free, holistic approach to treatment that focuses on improving the patient's overall quality of life. In the case of autism, this is especially relevant, since the symptoms often present considerable distress to not only the patient but their family also.<br /><br /><a href="www.bestchiropractoradelaide.com.au" rel="nofollow">Chiropractor Adelaide</a>G WIlsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15582821514980015534noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1270723657817172117.post-86515965406610879742011-07-14T18:24:44.230-07:002011-07-14T18:24:44.230-07:00Anonymous this is not a question of better quality...Anonymous this is not a question of better quality of life, and that's an incredibly subjective term anyway. The issue is that many Chiropractors claim, no matter what treatment they are applying, they can treat ASD and it's symptoms. I am waiting to see the clear evidence of this. What I see is families paying money for non evidence based treatments when those same dollars could be going towards therapies that are shown to have good effect.sharon Morrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15492764403059640967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1270723657817172117.post-19171937781224570352011-07-14T15:51:37.225-07:002011-07-14T15:51:37.225-07:00Chiropractic is the detection and correction of ve...Chiropractic is the detection and correction of vertebral subluxation. A subluxation simply put is something out of alignment in your spine. The result of this can be limitations to the nervous system which runs through the spine. A chiropractor does not 'fix' your spine, a chiropractor just allows your body to function to it's optimal potential, free of subluxation. If this optimal potential means that a person with autism is able to live a better quality of life then why wouldn't you?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1270723657817172117.post-61069772457267687772011-07-14T08:31:21.781-07:002011-07-14T08:31:21.781-07:00I wonder if it is a litigenous action, viability o...I wonder if it is a litigenous action, viability of chiropracty set aside?Usethebrains Godgiveyouhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05026223483117357541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1270723657817172117.post-4215884391496517792011-07-13T18:45:55.941-07:002011-07-13T18:45:55.941-07:00thevreelandclinic
When Sullivan says effectively ...thevreelandclinic<br /><br />When Sullivan says effectively "I'm a chiropractic doctor. I know how to treat autism", I think I can be forgiven for assuming that he is using chiropractic techniques to "treat" autism. He may be doing other things instead of or as well as adjustments. He doesn't specify. I've asked him for clarification and he hasn't responded.<br /><br />30 seconds on Google shows that, regardless of what this particular chiropractor is doing, there are plenty of chiropractors out there who claim to cure all manner of disorders and diseases via adjustments (see the article in the Australian linked above for one example). So while I may have jumped to conclusions about what exactly it is that Sullivan is doing, please do spare me the righteous indignation.<br /><br />The bottom line, however, is that whether we're talking about chiropractic adjustments or "functional neurology", there does not appear to be any evidence of efficacy. It's not me being biased. In the absence of evidence I have nothing to be biased about.drbrocktagonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15225859145004971487noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1270723657817172117.post-62850009312905771402011-07-13T18:06:20.881-07:002011-07-13T18:06:20.881-07:00I can't help but notice that in these posts mo...I can't help but notice that in these posts more than one person has inferred that chiropractors are adjusting their ASD patients and that is the only therapy being applied. Others have made the leap that somehow chiropractors believe autism is a problem of the back and nerves and can be treated accordingly.<br /><br />Jon, your background as a researcher is impressive but you are not being very objective. You said yourself you know very little about chiropractic but you've made repeated claims about it as if you do. Isn't your job as a scientist to suspend your own beliefs and bias to look at the facts and come to a rational conclusion? <br /><br />So far you have concluded that chiropractors are adjusting their autistic patients, claiming them cured and offering no evidence as to how they've done it. This simply is not the case with all chiropractors.<br /><br />As Sharon mentioned above, there is a divide in chiropractic. There are those that believe that adjusting someone's spine is the key to all things healthy. While I see it as a valuable tool, I don't believe it cures disease. I can only speak for the US because I do not know what chiropractic is like outside of it, but chiropractors in the US are licensed as primary care doctors and treat much more than backs. Those with sub-specialties, like neurology, have degrees that are accredited by the same credentialing bodies that accredit many medical sub-specialties here in the US and Canada. Those chiropractors have very different practices that the ones you are envisioning in your head. <br /><br />I agree wholeheartedly with you about providing more research as to how functional neurology works. Those projects are in the works as you have noted. <br /><br />The therapies that these chiropractic neurologists are applying include light and sound therapy, tactile therapy, balance work, nutritional counseling, behavior modification and many other therapies that have proven to be helpful for ASD patients. They are not simply adjusting them.<br /><br />I would ask that you have your facts correct before you make generalized conclusions about an entire profession. As a scientist, I am sure you know that generalizations are rarely correct.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1270723657817172117.post-7768477106579114482011-07-13T15:20:39.743-07:002011-07-13T15:20:39.743-07:00usethebrainsgodgiveyou, I hear many of these stori...usethebrainsgodgiveyou, I hear many of these stories too. My response is that correlation does not equal causation. We can't know if your childs ear infection would have cleared up without the intervention. As ear infections can.<br /> IF claimed results cant be replicated in a controlled environment then we have a problem.sharon Morrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15492764403059640967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1270723657817172117.post-26141743477047885432011-07-13T14:05:19.118-07:002011-07-13T14:05:19.118-07:00Hi Ryan
Thanks for the constructive comments. I&#...Hi Ryan<br /><br />Thanks for the constructive comments. I'll read the paper that you linked to on PubMed. It'll be good to get a better insight of what is actually involved.<br /><br />In the meantime, it's worth pointing out that, even using your new criteria, there is only ONE paper that comes up and this is not providing evidence that "Functional Neurology" approaches work. <br /><br />Like our 2002 paper, Melillo and Leisman are proposing a hypothesis that autism might be some kind of disconnectiomy kind of problem, but also saying "Hey we reckon we can treat it".<br /><br />I've only been able to read the abstract so far, but I'm pretty sure if there was actual evidence that they could "fix" autism, that would have made it to the abstract.<br /><br />Also, the research at the Carrick Institute is all listed as "ongoing". The poster presentations are all for studies measuring EEG oscillations in autism, not actually evaluating treatments of autism. The research itself sounds pretty interesting, but again there is no evidence that these treatments work.drbrocktagonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15225859145004971487noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1270723657817172117.post-20312780389723296382011-07-13T09:56:51.651-07:002011-07-13T09:56:51.651-07:00Hello all,
I'd like to add to this discussion...Hello all,<br /><br />I'd like to add to this discussion but I'll share a little about myself first. I am a chiropractor in the US and have been for 5 years. I am also continuing to further my professional education as a learner and student through the Carrick Institute of Graduate Studies. At this point in my studies, I would not profess to be an expert is ASD, neurology or to have sufficient answers to many of the questions that have been raised in this dialogue. <br /><br />I would like to clear up a few things that seem to be misunderstood. <br /> <br />1) There is a difference between being a chiropractor and being a functional neurologist. Dr. Sullivan seems to be speaking from his functional neurology education and not merely as a chiropractor that is laying patients down on an adjusting table, delivering a spinal adjustment and claiming to have improved the function of a person with autism.<br /><br />2) Simply typing chiropractic and autism into pubmed will not reveal the research you are looking for, again this is not the work of traditional chiropractors. <br /><br />3) "they're bypassing the science and going straight to the franchise" This is not the whole story, certainly some in the chiropractic profession have missed the boat when it comes to working through the scientific process and peer review. This is not the case with the best of us, much research and publication has occurred over the last several years within the functional neurology community. Including projects specific to ASD.<br /><br />Here is a link to the FR Carrick Research Institute page with a list of their current and past projects.<br />http://www.frcarrickresearchinstitute.org/projects<br /><br />Here is a link for a pubmed search using more specific search criteria:<br />http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=functional%20disconnection%20syndrome%20autism<br /><br />This research is still uncovering the basis for a more thorough understanding of exactly how functional neurologists can serve people with autism. With that said, we do have very skilled clinicians that are actively changing lives with their understanding of how to serve this special population.<br /><br />Thanks for allowing this discussion, I look forward to contributing more if I am able.Ryan Furnissnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1270723657817172117.post-82509670643005942342011-07-13T05:28:44.283-07:002011-07-13T05:28:44.283-07:00My son had chronic ear infections, and concomitant...My son had chronic ear infections, and concomitant treatment with anti-biotics. They were getting ready for tubes. Our doctor was a brilliant Ped, and nationally recognized. <br /><br />We were told Randy the Chiropractor had treated other kids with ear infections. Seems we had been giving Ben a bottle at night and the milk leaked into his ears and caused the infection.<br /><br />Within a week, his infections cleared up. (He started walking, too.)<br /><br />Only time I've ever had any contact with a chiropractor.<br /><br />Jus' sayin...not sure what, but jus sayin.<br /><br />Common people love chiro's. I'm not sure why...because they are cheaper than doctors but still wear white coats? <br /><br />Guess I'll allow someone else to actually add to the discussion.Usethebrains Godgiveyouhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05026223483117357541noreply@blogger.com